From the Stage to Estate: Digital Matters with Special Guest Phillip Nathaniel Freeman

Paul Ellis: 00:00:42

Welcome to insights.

Paul Ellis: 00:00:43

This is Paul Ellis, managing director of Ellis Wealth Management, where we encourage you to invest in what you love.

Paul Ellis: 00:00:50

Ellis Wealth Management is an independent financial services firm focused on planning, advice, coaching and investment management.

Paul Ellis: 00:01:00

We are dedicated to the families we serve and we encourage you to invest in what you love.

Paul Ellis: 00:01:06

Within Insights, we look at ways to make our world richer through focusing on sharing and developing human capital.

Paul Ellis: 00:01:32

Well, all right.

Paul Ellis: 00:01:34

What a great, what a great day it is in the very beautiful and warm this time of year Pacific Northwest.

Paul Ellis: 00:01:45

I am pleased to be joined today by my good colleague James Bergeron.

Paul Ellis: 00:01:52

Jim is an advisor education consultant, the Global Learning and Development Group where he and his team focus on developing and delivering intellectual capital designed to help wealth management firms and advisory practices evolve and enhance their relationships with their clients.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:11

Good morning, Jim.

James Bergeron: 00:02:13

Good morning, Paula.

James Bergeron: 00:02:15

It's great being with you again and thank you for inviting me into not only this session, but the series that we have done in the past.

James Bergeron: 00:02:23

It's great to be talking with you again.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:25

It is great to be back with you as well.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:28

Last year we spent time sharing a series of important information and steps that families can use to prepare and strengthen their family's financial foundations.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:37

I will place a link in the show notes and people can listen to those informative episodes.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:43

Today we're launching a new series to discuss advanced planning techniques that span different needs and touch different professions which may need additional considerations.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:53

And so today we have a very special guest today with us.

Paul Ellis: 00:02:57

Before I introduce that special guest, Jim, would you be so kind as just to review the four corner documents and the family gps that we talked about in the previous series?

James Bergeron: 00:03:10

Sure.

James Bergeron: 00:03:10

Happy to.

James Bergeron: 00:03:10

Paul.

James Bergeron: 00:03:11

You know, one of the things that we had discussed then was that when it comes to wealth and wealth transitions, what you might kind of think about as an estate plan in the traditional context, one of the main points that we made was that wealth is more than just the economic or very specific objective asset that it should contemplate more about what we are as individuals and as families.

James Bergeron: 00:03:40

And that should be incorporated into a plan overall.

James Bergeron: 00:03:43

So we shared some thoughts around what we refer to as a guiding principle statement.

James Bergeron: 00:03:48

And at the end of the day, that's a structure that allows us to identify what's important to us as families, what's important to us as individuals and incorporating that into the estate plan.

James Bergeron: 00:04:02

We talked about that estate plan.

James Bergeron: 00:04:05

We suggested that it starts with some four corner foundational components.

James Bergeron: 00:04:11

Now, there might be more to it and we'll talk today about some of those pieces, but those four corner foundational Elements are will and or revocable trust, depending upon where you reside.

James Bergeron: 00:04:23

One may be more prevalent than another, but that in turn accumulates and disperses the assets and the wealth.

James Bergeron: 00:04:32

And that can include non financial factors.

James Bergeron: 00:04:37

Second corner, a power of attorney for financial purposes who can make decisions on your behalf if you are incapacitated and unable to communicate them.

James Bergeron: 00:04:46

It might be for a short time period, it might be for a longer time period, but at the end of the day, having someone that can act on your behalf if you are unable to, and it might be by way of accident, for instance, is incredibly important.

James Bergeron: 00:05:03

Third corner, same document, but for medical purposes.

James Bergeron: 00:05:07

Someone that can make medical decisions on your behalf.

James Bergeron: 00:05:10

Incredibly helpful for the healthcare team that might be dealing with whatever circumstances have impacted you directly.

James Bergeron: 00:05:20

Oftentimes if it's a married couple, it's that that other spouse that's making those decisions, but sometimes both are impacted in the same event.

James Bergeron: 00:05:31

And so who can make those decisions on your behalf?

James Bergeron: 00:05:33

And then the final piece that we talked about, Paul, was that idea of a living will or letter of wishes.

James Bergeron: 00:05:39

And it's morbid to think about and I understand that, but I always would suggest to people it's better to contemplate it now as opposed to when you're faced with those circumstances.

James Bergeron: 00:05:52

And what I'm talking about is if you are in a terminal state in which there is no recovery and some decisions need to be made around things like hydration, nutrition, pain medication, having a document that outlines what your wishes are really helpful for your family, not putting them in the position to have to make these decisions while maybe sitting bedside with a loved one.

James Bergeron: 00:06:20

It's incredibly important and it's a document that helps that process.

James Bergeron: 00:06:24

Those were those four corners that we had mentioned and we went into a little bit more depth around each one of those.

James Bergeron: 00:06:30

But Paul, as you and I talked about, the foundation is important, but it's not necessarily the end state either where you want to start adding in some additional thoughts.

James Bergeron: 00:06:41

And that's where our series will go to.

Paul Ellis: 00:06:44

Excellent.

Paul Ellis: 00:06:44

Well, thank you.

Paul Ellis: 00:06:45

Thank you for, for restating that.

Paul Ellis: 00:06:48

Again, for those that would like to listen to the previous series, I'll place the links in the show notes.

Paul Ellis: 00:06:55

And you know, Jim, I was reading a story the other day about the estate of Prince.

Paul Ellis: 00:06:59

And while he was an amazing musical genius and talent, he did not plan his life estate very well.

Paul Ellis: 00:07:07

And while everyone loves arts and entertainment, it's a very difficult profession.

Paul Ellis: 00:07:12

And there are some planning considerations that include digital assets in that particular particular field.

Paul Ellis: 00:07:20

Which brings me to our very Special guest today, Philip Nathaniel Freeman and Phil is a multi talented artist and a musician known for his work as the lead singer, bass guitarist and founding member of the power rock trio Small Town Titans.

Paul Ellis: 00:07:40

Throughout his life, Phil has been deeply involved in the arts and entertainment industry, developing a range of skills and talents that have helped him pursue a successful career in those fields.

Paul Ellis: 00:07:51

to music and art full time in: 2012

Paul Ellis: 00:08:12

His efforts have earned him charting singles on Billboard, Spotify and Apple Music as well as a large and engaged social media following and successful work relationships with platinum recording artists and producers in studios and on stages across the United States.

Paul Ellis: 00:08:32

In addition to his musical pursuits, Phil is the author and creator of the singing and vocal training program the Vocal Blueprint.

Paul Ellis: 00:08:41

He's also actively involved in his local community, regularly donating his time to schools and organizations in Central Pennsylvania.

Paul Ellis: 00:08:50

With a dedication to continuing learning and personal growth, Phil aims to use his talents and knowledge to benefit the public good.

Paul Ellis: 00:08:59

And Phil is with us today.

Paul Ellis: 00:09:02

Phil, thank you for joining us.

Philip Freeman: 00:09:04

Happy to be here.

Philip Freeman: 00:09:05

Paul, thank you so much for having me, man.

Paul Ellis: 00:09:07

I am so pleased to have you here and help us with a discussion around planning music and digital assets.

Paul Ellis: 00:09:15

You've had quite the storied career.

Philip Freeman: 00:09:18

It's been a lot of ups and downs and it continues to be.

Philip Freeman: 00:09:20

And yeah, I'm excited to talk about this and learn so much from this discussion about digital assets and how that relates to the arts and entertainment industry.

Philip Freeman: 00:09:30

With the advent of AI and the advances in technology and the positive and negative ways that those technologies are being used, it's something that everyone, especially working musicians and those in the arts and entertainment field should be cognizant of and I'm excited to have this discussion with all of you today.

Paul Ellis: 00:09:50

Well, that's actually excellent.

Paul Ellis: 00:09:53

And you know, with, with that success that you've had, you know, does come new business considerations for you and your family.

Paul Ellis: 00:10:01

So.

Philip Freeman: 00:10:01

Absolutely.

Paul Ellis: 00:10:02

We have have some questions that we want to go over.

Paul Ellis: 00:10:06

I know that you've provided some for us and Jim, I want to turn it over to you at this point and that the first question that Phil had, can you define what is and what is not a digital asset in the estate planning context?

Paul Ellis: 00:10:23

So I'm going to ask that question.

Paul Ellis: 00:10:25

Step back and let Phil and Jim share the discussion.

James Bergeron: 00:10:31

Yeah, and I think maybe I'll, I'll start.

James Bergeron: 00:10:33

And Phil We've chatted a little bit about this already.

James Bergeron: 00:10:37

But when it comes to an estate plan, one of the things that really has become much more prevalent is this idea of incorporating their digital life into that plan overall.

James Bergeron: 00:10:50

Now simply that can be things like passwords and online accounts, but where it gets a bit more complicated is when you start factoring in more business related, even if that business is entertainment related assets into it as well.

James Bergeron: 00:11:09

So I'd be interested in what your thoughts are as it relates to your industry and how that might in turn affect how we think about digital assets and an estate plan.

Philip Freeman: 00:11:21

Precisely.

Philip Freeman: 00:11:22

Ever since the advent of the Internet and file sharing, peer to peer software programs and how that led to streaming, the majority of the audio assets and video assets that are put out by musicians and bands and artists are indeed digital assets that collect advertisement money.

Philip Freeman: 00:11:51

They collect royalty money.

Philip Freeman: 00:11:53

And it's interesting how the pie is dissected.

Philip Freeman: 00:11:57

You have mechanical royalties, which has to do with the actual sound recording itself.

Philip Freeman: 00:12:04

And then on the other side of the pie are the lyrics and melody, which has to do with the structure and arrangement and words of a song.

Philip Freeman: 00:12:12

So that's how the pie is divided when it comes to a song in particular or a set of songs.

Philip Freeman: 00:12:19

And then of course you have the copyright, general copyright, which my understanding of it is once a work is created that holds a copyright without having to register it with the copyright office, by registering it with the copyright office, that just gives you a little bit more insurance and therefore it has, it has backing in court essentially, more backing rather.

Philip Freeman: 00:12:43

And if I'm incorrect about that, please feel free to correct me.

Philip Freeman: 00:12:47

But there is so much to consider when it comes to estate planning, when it comes to the music industry.

Philip Freeman: 00:12:55

It's not just about your tangible assets like my keyboard, my guitars, what they're going to be done, what's going to be done with them.

Philip Freeman: 00:13:04

Once, once I leave this earth, it's how are my royalties, the money that I make off of YouTube, the money that I make off of my original songs, the mechanical royalties from the covers that I do, where is that money going?

Philip Freeman: 00:13:19

So that is something that every single musician who is making a significant amount of money should consider.

Philip Freeman: 00:13:27

Also as a voice actor, the audio books that are done, any, any royalties that are coming from those, that is something that should be considered every single avenue.

Philip Freeman: 00:13:36

If there's a way to umbrella that for individuals who are working in this industry and have, are constantly creating digital assets in audio visual, it's very, it's something to strongly consider, especially with the advent of AI coming up here.

James Bergeron: 00:13:55

Yeah, a great point.

James Bergeron: 00:13:57

Interested also, Paul, in your thoughts.

James Bergeron: 00:13:59

But one of the things that you mentioned, Phil, and I agree, is that this whole notion of your digital domain, especially as it relates to businesses like the entertainment business, it's not only important, it has value and it needs to be addressed.

James Bergeron: 00:14:16

And part of what that would suggest is that as we go through the conversation, maybe as a listener, keep in mind that that plan that you put together to the extent that you have these types of assets or interests that should be incorporated in what we might refer to as a digital estate plan.

James Bergeron: 00:14:36

And in a little while I'll talk about why there might be a difference between your traditional estate plan and this digital estate plan plan.

James Bergeron: 00:14:44

But it would reference in that digital estate plan a lot of what Phil mentions, and that is that there's a value in that royalty stream and encapsulating that there's value in that catalog of materials and it doesn't need to be addressed.

James Bergeron: 00:15:00

Paul, you mentioned at the outset, you know, the estate of prints and you know, sometimes our learning experiences are those that haven't necessarily gone well.

James Bergeron: 00:15:09

And you know, that was an example of one.

James Bergeron: 00:15:11

It was a bit choppy because there wasn't the opportunity to address that value directly.

James Bergeron: 00:15:18

Paul, what are your thoughts?

Paul Ellis: 00:15:21

I think one of the things that's important for entertainers to recognize is that they have two lives.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:25

They have the life that they have on stage.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:28

They're going to have the life that they have after they leave the stage.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:32

They have the life of their.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:35

Of their life's work that is going to live on after them.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:40

And so they need to plan for how are they going to live now to protect themselves?

Paul Ellis: 00:15:46

How are they going to structure their contracts and their.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:52

Their life estate for when they leave the.

Paul Ellis: 00:15:56

The front of the stage so that they can still get the royalties that they need and still protect themselves for their likeness and their work to protect that income stream.

Paul Ellis: 00:16:07

And then who are they giving authority to after they pass so that their family, their foundation, or to whom they.

Paul Ellis: 00:16:18

They want to benefit their life's work can make those decisions for them.

Paul Ellis: 00:16:24

And different states have different components in their law in those states that allow them to either do it in a simple manner or they may need to become more complex or that artist might need to consider moving to a state that has thought through that.

Paul Ellis: 00:16:47

So I know that from some of my Reading, Pennsylvania, where Phil, you.

Paul Ellis: 00:16:53

You live actually has addressed this in a manner that is supposed to be more friendly to the entertainer and to the family than, than in other Places other place, other areas, such as Los Angeles or Nashville, Tennessee, they would also have, because of their industry, probably more friendly ways of directing that authority in their local laws and bylaws.

Paul Ellis: 00:17:28

Does that make sense?

Philip Freeman: 00:17:29

It does, it does.

Philip Freeman: 00:17:31

And it's something that I'm actually, unfortunately, woefully ignorant of as far as the state laws are concerned.

Philip Freeman: 00:17:39

And it's simply because all the, all the time and energy that I put into actually creating the assets takes up most of the time.

Philip Freeman: 00:17:47

However, it's incredibly important for, for people to look into their state laws, and it's encouraging to hear that Pennsylvania is indeed friendly to the artists and entertainers.

Philip Freeman: 00:18:00

That's exactly what, what a state should be, rather than other parties that are involved.

Philip Freeman: 00:18:05

You to side with the asset creators themselves is.

Philip Freeman: 00:18:09

That's.

Philip Freeman: 00:18:09

That's the way to go.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:11

Absolutely, absolutely.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:13

And being able to understand what your intellectual property rights are is also important.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:20

So from the creative standpoint, while some of these details may seem arduous and may seem, shall we say, challenging, it might be easier for you to sit down and write a complete symphony than it would be to read some of these other documents.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:40

But it's, it's important because it allows you to continue doing what you.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:44

What you're.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:45

What you're doing.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:46

Okay.

Philip Freeman: 00:18:47

Absolutely.

Paul Ellis: 00:18:48

The next question, why does understanding the scope of digital assets so important?

Paul Ellis: 00:18:54

I think we've discussed that things are put in digital form now.

Philip Freeman: 00:18:58

Yeah, there's, there's further elaboration that can be made on that topic.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:03

There are a significant amount of artists that were popular in the 70s, 80s, 90s that are working with people to enhance their digital footprint when they leave this earth.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:21

There's talks of artists scanning themselves, using the latest technology to create AI versions of themselves and to provide hologram versions of themselves.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:36

And even you've heard KISS talk about this.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:39

They're.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:40

They're notorious for so many interesting and unique ideas.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:44

When it comes to things, it's a little over the top, in my opinion.

Philip Freeman: 00:19:47

However, KISS is a very interesting business model because Gene Simmons has said that he wants Kiss to go on without the original members once they're done.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:01

He wants the Kiss to go on forever, and he wants avatars to be used.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:06

So I'm sure that Gene and his team and Paul are all thinking about how they can create and protect their digital assets when it comes to that.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:14

And there are other artists that are similar to that crew who are doing the same thing and are thinking about the future and moving forward.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:23

And the other thing to also consider too is public Domain law, when your copy copyright expires and enters the public domain, what happens then?

Philip Freeman: 00:20:34

It's like, that's like, how.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:36

How do you protect your name and likeness?

Philip Freeman: 00:20:38

It.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:38

Does the, does the law have to change or does it stay the same?

Philip Freeman: 00:20:43

Depending on the situation?

Philip Freeman: 00:20:45

I believe it's 75 years.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:47

If I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, and I know that, that.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:51

I'm sorry.

Philip Freeman: 00:20:52

Go ahead, Jim.

James Bergeron: 00:20:53

What I'm.

James Bergeron: 00:20:54

You made a really good point there.

James Bergeron: 00:20:55

And it's.

James Bergeron: 00:20:56

It's come really home, at least for a lot of people to see when you think about Disney and that iconic Mickey image.

James Bergeron: 00:21:06

And the fact is that that very early Steamboat Willie image is now public domain because of that very issue.

James Bergeron: 00:21:17

And to your point, that's the law.

James Bergeron: 00:21:22

The only way it changes is if the law changes around it.

Philip Freeman: 00:21:25

Right.

James Bergeron: 00:21:26

That said, that has to take in or be taken into account when you start to think about some of these legacy related pieces.

James Bergeron: 00:21:34

There is a point in time in which even copyrighted material enters into the.

Philip Freeman: 00:21:40

Public domain precisely now.

Philip Freeman: 00:21:43

And this is something that I can also elaborate on when it comes to.

Philip Freeman: 00:21:49

Whenever you see digitally remastered releases like the Beatles, for example, they put out a digitally remastered version of an album 20 years from now.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:03

The reason why they're doing that is because they can renew the copyright, essentially, if at least my understanding, for the mechanical license, because it's technically a new sound recording.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:16

So that's the way that they can just continue to.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:19

Now, obviously, it's less of a piece of the pie.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:22

They can't necessarily re.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:26

They can't redo the copyright for the song and lyrics themselves that will eventually enter the public domain.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:33

And the only way that you can get around that is by making a different arrangement.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:40

But even then it's a little sketchy.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:43

But the way that they can at least preserve their mechanical royalties is by refreshing that with new digital, with new versions of recordings.

Philip Freeman: 00:22:51

That's probably a significant reason why you see that happen on a regular basis, not just because it's, you know, of anniversaries and it's special and it's something that's meaningful to the fans, but it also preserves the copyright, at least in the mechanical essence of the.

Philip Freeman: 00:23:07

Of the asset.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:08

up in, I think it was around: 2017

Philip Freeman: 00:23:20

Yeah.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:21

And Peter Cushing's likeness CGI into the, into the movie.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:29

Peter Cushing, famous actor.

Philip Freeman: 00:23:31

Yes.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:32

Had been passed away for.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:34

Had been deceased for some time and lo.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:37

And Behold, he made a, an appearance and he spoke and he did and he spoke.

Philip Freeman: 00:23:43

Yes.

Paul Ellis: 00:23:43

And that was: 2017

Paul Ellis: 00:23:45

We're in: 2024

Paul Ellis: 00:23:47

Things have only progressed.

Philip Freeman: 00:23:51

Oh.

Philip Freeman: 00:23:51

When you see the latest technology and what companies like OpenAI are up to and especially with their, and the name escapes me at the moment but their, I think it's Sora.

Philip Freeman: 00:24:05

Their, their newest video generation technology is absolutely mind boggling how, how good it is and it.

Philip Freeman: 00:24:16

The for example Star Wars Rogue One, those computer graphics though quite good for, for the, for the time pales in comparison to what AI is, is able to do now.

Philip Freeman: 00:24:31

So it's just, it's incredible to see and it's going to be, it's going to be crazy to see what happens in the next 10 years.

Paul Ellis: 00:24:38

And that goes to your point, you know, there what are the high level steps that can ensure the safety and distribution of those digital assets?

Paul Ellis: 00:24:47

Things generally get progress.

Paul Ellis: 00:24:49

So those are things to consider for sure.

Philip Freeman: 00:24:53

I mean in my opinion and like I am coming from a perspective of someone who is looking into this, I have yet to fully delve into these areas and it's something that I am planning on doing to a degree, something that I would strongly recommend for any artist out there that's looking to protect their name and likeness, their copyright in some way, shape or form is to look into the advantages of blockchain technology.

Philip Freeman: 00:25:26

Because unlike the Copyright Office, which is still like the official way to back up your copyright, another way to back that up with instant technology is the use of blockchain technology.

Philip Freeman: 00:25:38

The reason why blockchain is so useful is because the transfers, the contracts that are used with that technology are instantaneous.

Philip Freeman: 00:25:47

I predict a situation where instead of waiting a quarter like every quarter for your royalties through your performance rights organization or your mechanical rights organization, who's collecting royalties on your behalf and then taking a cut rather than waiting a couple of months for those royalties to come in.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:06

There is an opportunity for blockchain technology to be used to instantaneously pay you your royalties for a TV spot or for a spin on digital radio or whatever that is because of the use of blockchain technology.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:20

And it's also incredibly useful for protecting your assets through that blockchain because of the way that the technology works to to could potentially work to prove the authenticity of a work or vice versa.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:37

It's prove that it's inauthentic.

Paul Ellis: 00:26:39

It's similar for those that don't know, it's similar but more complex than being able to track a FedEx package along its route.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:51

Precisely.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:52

It's just, it's.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:52

It's electrodes and light speed.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:55

Yes.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:55

Through fiber optic cables.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:56

Little packets.

Paul Ellis: 00:26:57

Yes, yes.

Philip Freeman: 00:26:58

Well, of information out there.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:00

Well, I know that blockchain technology is being used for tracking payments and the authenticity of certain coffee and coffee beans, depending on where they're coming from, so that particular owners can make sure that they are paid and that they're paid correctly.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:19

So I know that it has made its way into the coffee field.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:24

That, that I.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:25

That I know.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:26

And that's great.

Philip Freeman: 00:27:27

I love coffee.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:28

So, like, good coffee for sure.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:31

And so I can see for sure that throughout time, this is only going to start applying itself in different measures as well.

Paul Ellis: 00:27:42

For example, in music, when was this particular set of music made?

Paul Ellis: 00:27:47

Where was it made?

Paul Ellis: 00:27:48

As opposed to it being AI by somebody else and then inserting it into different music, being able to create the authenticity stream of who did what when.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:01

So that that person or that, that those persons can receive correct royalty payments.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:07

And you'll have that opportunity to say, do I want to get paid instantaneously?

Paul Ellis: 00:28:11

Do I want to get paid on the 3rd of the month?

Paul Ellis: 00:28:13

Do I want to get, you know, at the end of the month, you'll be able to have that, as opposed to, as a musician, you know, having to keep running out to the mailbox to see if.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:24

If the check has come along with the Publisher's Clearinghouse certificate.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:30

So.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:31

Well, when do you see departments like the US Copyright Office catching up to the latest tech?

Paul Ellis: 00:28:38

If ever.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:40

I think we.

Paul Ellis: 00:28:40

I think you answered that question, if ever, you know.

James Bergeron: 00:28:43

Yeah, I would tend to agree, Phil, you.

James Bergeron: 00:28:46

And we chatted a little bit about as.

James Bergeron: 00:28:48

I chuckled both, I think, at the same time, hearing the question, because I think it does answer itself, if ever.

James Bergeron: 00:28:54

Right.

James Bergeron: 00:28:55

Because there is going to be a lag.

James Bergeron: 00:28:58

And it's not necessarily a slight to those professionals working in copyright offices and some of the legal domains.

James Bergeron: 00:29:06

It's just that the technology, as Phil indicated, is changing so rapidly, so aggressively.

James Bergeron: 00:29:13

We see it even in the legal domain you mentioned artificial intelligence in the entertainment field, in the legal domain, the planning offices, artificial intelligence is becoming a part of that.

James Bergeron: 00:29:26

You see individuals starting to think about, well, can I use, for instance, ChatGPT to draft a will and our trust?

James Bergeron: 00:29:33

And the answer is, sure you can.

James Bergeron: 00:29:37

But I would come back to that premise that is it specific enough and pertinent to your situation, your relevant situation?

James Bergeron: 00:29:46

And I think that's where there's still some movement, certainly on the legal side when it comes to artificial intelligence, there's a need for evolution.

James Bergeron: 00:29:56

I ask for instance, AI to generate a trust.

James Bergeron: 00:29:59

For me, it does a pretty good job.

James Bergeron: 00:30:01

But when I look at that trust, there's a strong likelihood that it doesn't necessarily meet my specific needs.

James Bergeron: 00:30:08

And in some cases it may not take into account some of the things that do need to be addressed as we talked about before, even at a state level where state laws can differ from one jurisdiction to the next.

James Bergeron: 00:30:21

So I think that's an incredibly important part of it.

James Bergeron: 00:30:23

And as we start to maybe think about this, Paul, one of the things that I'd be interested in also hearing from Philon is we mentioned a number of different things.

James Bergeron: 00:30:32

As you start to think about tying that into a digital estate plan, one of the first steps is maybe starting to inventory some of these resources.

James Bergeron: 00:30:43

What are some of those items, Phil, I'd be interested in hearing from you as you start to maybe think about and click off in your mind, what are those digital assets?

James Bergeron: 00:30:54

Avenues Royal, all of those pieces.

James Bergeron: 00:30:57

What things kind of come to mind when you start to think about taking that inventory.

James Bergeron: 00:31:03

What are some of those?

Philip Freeman: 00:31:04

Yeah, so the like there's so many assets to think of, Jim.

Philip Freeman: 00:31:10

And just off the top of my head, every single recording that we've ever done, whatever you consider the masters, if you ever heard that term, the masters of your recordings, those are probably the crown jewel of digital assets for musicians, especially if you're self producing music, the stems.

Philip Freeman: 00:31:34

So every individual track that you record and if you want to get them remixed and remastered by somebody else or yourself for a different release those assets on a hard drive or cold storage, that is considered a major digital asset.

Philip Freeman: 00:31:52

The songs that you upload to music distribution, there are different companies like Distrokid, I know that there are and there's, there's a whole bunch of other CD baby Tunecore.

Philip Freeman: 00:32:05

These are all platforms that allow pretty much anyone and everyone to release music and make royalties off of said music from Spotify, itunes, whatever music distributors are, are currently active and putting out streaming and collecting royalties.

Philip Freeman: 00:32:24

So that being said, those ISRC codes, those UPC codes for the actual tangible that I mean, well, the UPC is more for physical goods and CDs, so the ISRCs are much more important.

Philip Freeman: 00:32:40

So tracking those ISRCs and making sure that those are are umbrella under A and estate plan and saying that those songs and those royalties go to said person or go into this trust or go into this llc, that is an incredibly important thing to consider and it actually has my mind spinning on how to, to do that because that's that's a really in it.

Philip Freeman: 00:33:08

This has me thinking about that way more than I have in the past.

Philip Freeman: 00:33:11

Because now that I that I'm looking at all of those assets in this light, it makes me realize how much has to be interpreted.

Philip Freeman: 00:33:22

And God forbid if I leave this earth and my wife has to deal with this while also raising my son and taking care of our dog.

Philip Freeman: 00:33:33

I need to do this for her and have a, have a roadmap for her or for whoever else is the, is the beneficiary of it to make sure that they have they understand where the money should go.

Philip Freeman: 00:33:50

So based on all of those factors, the visual assets, the video, the music videos that are posted on YouTube, all of those are digital assets.

Philip Freeman: 00:34:01

The advertisement money that comes from that.

Philip Freeman: 00:34:05

What if there's a situation where somebody posts that like a music video of mine or some other artist and starts making ad revenue off of that?

Philip Freeman: 00:34:15

Now YouTube has a very good model for handling that type of situation, but who's going to get that ad revenue when I'm gone?

Philip Freeman: 00:34:25

Very important questions to consider and answer along the way for anyone that's involved in this industry.

Philip Freeman: 00:34:32

Any content creator.

James Bergeron: 00:34:36

Yeah, I mean, incredibly important points.

James Bergeron: 00:34:37

And Paul, maybe that's part of transitioning into another topical piece for this session.

James Bergeron: 00:34:44

Phil raises really good points and to me, part of the opportunity is giving listeners a sense of, okay, a lot of great information.

James Bergeron: 00:34:55

Where might I start?

James Bergeron: 00:34:57

And I would just echo what what Phil just went through, depending upon what is specific to your situation.

James Bergeron: 00:35:06

Bill's background is as an entertainer and he's talked us through as to start to develop that checklist.

James Bergeron: 00:35:13

One of the first things you want to do is inventory your digital assets.

James Bergeron: 00:35:19

And it may differ, right?

James Bergeron: 00:35:20

We just went through a really good back background around just what are some of those digital assets in the entertainment industry that you want to start to inventory?

James Bergeron: 00:35:29

The first step in this process is inventory your digital assets and then start to think about where you want those assets to go.

James Bergeron: 00:35:38

Now, it may differ, right?

James Bergeron: 00:35:40

In other industries, for instance, maybe it's an E commerce industry.

James Bergeron: 00:35:43

And in that industry, part of your business model revolves around that notion of let's say you've got online commerce and you're using a platform like Etsy or ebay, those components have to be a part of this digital plan.

James Bergeron: 00:35:58

And the first step, Paul, and I'm interested in your thoughts as well.

James Bergeron: 00:36:01

But to me, that first step is let's start to inventory what these assets are.

James Bergeron: 00:36:06

Write them down.

James Bergeron: 00:36:07

It doesn't have to necessarily be formal at this point, it's just start to capture the things that are important in your digital life so that we've got that inventory as a starting point.

James Bergeron: 00:36:17

Would you agree?

James Bergeron: 00:36:18

Paul?

Paul Ellis: 00:36:18

I agree.

Paul Ellis: 00:36:19

The other thing that I would do as well is take inventory of what you want.

Paul Ellis: 00:36:26

What do you want to happen?

Paul Ellis: 00:36:28

That family GPS that we talked about from the last series helps guide you in the next steps.

Paul Ellis: 00:36:37

Would you agree?

Paul Ellis: 00:36:38

Jim?

James Bergeron: 00:36:38

Yeah, I would agree, Paul.

James Bergeron: 00:36:40

I think that is again to me it's it serves as your compass and I've said this before, that GPS your family, your guiding principle statement and there are tools that can help prepare that.

James Bergeron: 00:36:54

We may even want to link some of those, Paul, from our earlier conversations.

James Bergeron: 00:36:59

But it serves as a compass as things evolve, as technology changes.

James Bergeron: 00:37:04

That gps, that guiding principle statement helps keep the evolution of your state plan on track very much like the GPS unit on your phone or in your car, it helps get you from where you're at to where you want to be and it adjusts along the way and it provides those adjustments.

James Bergeron: 00:37:25

Now my car, it's if there's traffic or an accident.

James Bergeron: 00:37:30

But in this domain it's as things evolve, as technology evolves, as the legal structures catch up with that as to your family, circumstances change, you need that GPS piece of it.

James Bergeron: 00:37:44

And I think having that then starting with that inventory of assets and then Paul, to your point, starting to think about where you want those assets to ultimately land up.

James Bergeron: 00:37:55

And that might be both the physical as well as the digital assets that that would be a part of that next checks list item.

James Bergeron: 00:38:06

And then I think we maybe want to go into real quickly what what I might mean by when I referenced earlier a digital estate plan, what I think of that maybe goes into that versus even more of a traditional estate plan.

James Bergeron: 00:38:21

But I agree, Paul, part of it is inventory those assets, then decide where you want them to go to.

Paul Ellis: 00:38:28

The next thing I would probably put on that checklist and we'll create one and we'll post it as a guide, not as a definitive comprehensive checklist is additional documentation such as if you're going to have a trust, who's going to be the successor trustee?

Paul Ellis: 00:38:50

Is it going to be your spouse, your partner, a family member or another institution that will help guide your family after the passing and after the trust is active in the manner that you designed it?

Paul Ellis: 00:39:08

That's something that I would consider that trustee and successor trustee and then also where, where do you plan on living again, where you reside is going to have an impact on the ability for some of these components, legal parameters to be enacted in the way that you want them to be.

Paul Ellis: 00:39:33

So if you're in Montana, it might be different than being in Nashville.

Paul Ellis: 00:39:39

Both great places might just be different from a legal standpoint, and one might need to consider that.

Paul Ellis: 00:39:45

Or if you enjoy living where you're living now, but you're planning to move someplace for retirement after you exit the stage, it's good to know what are going to be some of the guiding principles in that area.

Paul Ellis: 00:40:00

So I'll put that in the checklist as well.

James Bergeron: 00:40:02

Well, I think that again, really good thought process around that and it helps our listeners to maybe start thinking about.

James Bergeron: 00:40:10

So how do I take some of what we've heard and maybe turn it into reality in my life and in my world?

James Bergeron: 00:40:19

A couple of additional things that I would add maybe to your point, as Phil's indicated, a big part of his life revolves around the entertainment industry and what he does as a profession.

James Bergeron: 00:40:32

And that's a part of what makes him who he is.

James Bergeron: 00:40:36

And it's a part of what their family is about.

James Bergeron: 00:40:39

We talked about the idea of inventory those specific items and then starting to think about what would you want to have happen with those assets.

James Bergeron: 00:40:48

And when we think about an estate plan, oftentimes we're thinking 20, 30 years from now.

James Bergeron: 00:40:54

Right.

James Bergeron: 00:40:54

The hope is that I'm putting something together, but I don't really want to think about it happening tomorrow.

James Bergeron: 00:41:01

The reality is that some things can happen.

James Bergeron: 00:41:04

And part of what I would suggest, in addition to what you indicated, Paul, is as you're thinking about putting this plan together, let's start also with the premise that you're doing it based upon what you would like to see happen in the next three to five years.

James Bergeron: 00:41:20

If something were to happen to you, don't try to think about the estate plan and documents that are going to survive for 20 plus years, but think about if something were to happen in the next few years, what would I want done with my assets, with my life, the things that I've accumulated, and then just commit to revisiting that every three to five years and reviewing and updating it as needed.

James Bergeron: 00:41:50

And as a part of that, you know, we probably should spend just a moment talking about fiduciaries.

James Bergeron: 00:41:55

You've mentioned that piece of it as well, Paul, but to me, again, this is that notion of start to capture it, build that estate plan for digital purposes, do it from a short term standpoint, what do I want for the next three to five years and then just continually update it.

James Bergeron: 00:42:10

Does that make sense?

Paul Ellis: 00:42:12

Oh, absolutely.

Paul Ellis: 00:42:13

And at the Pace things are going as far as the ability to track payments like through blockchain or the ability for AI to improve the likeness of individuals and the revenue that can come from that.

Paul Ellis: 00:42:32

I think three to five years is going to be a long time in the digital, in the digital space.

Paul Ellis: 00:42:41

You know, I think of, I think of espn, the games that we can play or my kids can play with Madden Football for example.

Paul Ellis: 00:42:49

The first Madden Football characters look like, look like blocks now.

Paul Ellis: 00:42:59

It was fun, it was like playing Pong.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:00

But the thing was moving, you know, but, but you know, the players were moving.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:04

But now the, the, the likeness is so much better and it's only going to improve, it's only going to increase.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:11

That three to five year time period is I think a very good time period to, to revisit.

Philip Freeman: 00:43:20

Absolutely, that's great advice.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:23

Well, Jim, this is a spot where I think we should take a moment.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:28

We're talking about fiduciary and responsibility.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:33

I know that Nuveen has a quick housekeeping message that needs to be shared.

Paul Ellis: 00:43:39

Why don't we share it at this time right here?

James Bergeron: 00:43:40

And Paul, you're being really kind because at the end of the day it's, it's.

James Bergeron: 00:43:44

We want to make sure that we're disclosing appropriately that we do have certain roles that we play.

James Bergeron: 00:43:49

And so as a part of that, the information that, that I've provided, providing here, it's being obtained from sources of that we believe to be reliable, but its accuracy is not guaranteed.

James Bergeron: 00:44:01

There's no representation or warranty as to the current accuracy and reliability of that information and it should be treated and relied upon as such.

James Bergeron: 00:44:12

What we've talked about today is provided for informational and educational purposes.

James Bergeron: 00:44:17

And although the conversation contains general tax legal related pieces, it should not replace a client's consultation with their own professional advisor, their own guidance counselors, especially as it relates to those digital assets.

James Bergeron: 00:44:34

Nuveen is not a tax advisor.

James Bergeron: 00:44:37

The information that we provide is not intended to provide legal or tax advice.

James Bergeron: 00:44:41

And clients should consult with their own legal tax advisors, estate planning professionals, as they make their choices both for their traditional estate plans as well as for that digital estate plan.

James Bergeron: 00:44:53

Plan N securities is a member of FINRA and SIPC N LLC provides investment solutions through its investment specialist specialists.

James Bergeron: 00:45:05

Paul, thank you for that.

James Bergeron: 00:45:06

I appreciate that opportunity.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:07

Well, thank you Jim and thank you Phil.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:11

This has been terrific.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:13

This has been absolutely.

Philip Freeman: 00:45:14

Thank you.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:15

Oh, thank you.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:16

I know that you're very, very busy and you had to move some things around to be here today and we we truly, truly appreciate it.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:24

You know, in your honor, having me.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:26

Oh, my pleasure.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:27

In your honor.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:28

We're going to end this episode with a sample of Small Town Titans.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:34

Let Me Breathe.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:35

If I can have your permission to do so.

James Bergeron: 00:45:38

Excellent.

Philip Freeman: 00:45:39

You have my permission.

Philip Freeman: 00:45:40

On behalf of my team.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:42

Excellent.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:43

And until next time, we want to encourage everyone to invest always in what you love.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:49

Small Town Titans.

Paul Ellis: 00:45:51

Let Me Breathe.

Song Lyrics Speaker: 00:45:54

There's a game of fantasy tonight between my shadow and I And it starts for something great now that's I sit here satisfied it whispers in my ear it tries to sell my soul for things that I don't need?

Song Lyrics Speaker: 00:46:32

Caesar won't stop until I break Especially when I start to speak?

Song Lyrics Speaker: 00:46:43

Let me breathe As I try to clear the weight inside As I find my saving grace this time?

Song Lyrics Speaker: 00:46:50

Cause the hunger never fades no, the hunger never fades Let me be As I try to steal away this diet As I try to clear the waiting side because song never fade no, the hunger never fade Let me breathe As I try to give a face inside.